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Post by Jason Verge on Oct 20, 2012 13:09:25 GMT -5
i don't need to research my answer yes we require the 3 things you have listed in order to pass things at the agm. Sorry your not on the Eastern Executive, i may not agree with your views but i taught you were doing allright on the executive. As for improving darts in Eastern our goal is to improve darts in all Regions not just Eastern. By the way D J the AGM this year is at the A tournament so maybe we will get some new ideas from the A players remains to be seen.
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Post by morleygreening on Oct 21, 2012 8:11:32 GMT -5
After reading some of the comments about the executive and how they were not promoting darts, but in fact doing the opposit,e I had to comment.First of all your executive tried to get Clarenville and area to join the provincial association this year by sending a member of the executive there in August to get their dart players to join and host the Provincial "B".They were not interested. A few years ago your executive,along with Molsons, expanded the divisions so that there would be two east of the overpass and another one in Central in the Gander area.No interest was shown.
They talked to Lab East to try and come back into the fold and they even had play-offs and teams to come out but it proved to costly.
They listened to the complaints about the difference in the "A" division averages and tried a trial format with a two tier system in the provincials.It didn't work to everyone's satisfaction but it was a start.Still,two teams walked out because they couldn't get their own way. Such an example of sportmanship for our young players.
I don't know about other divisions but in ours SW and the Provincial Association, the executives follow and implement what their AGM dictates.The AGM gives them guidance and direction.if they don't like what the executive does they vote them out or change it. What infuriates me is that people who do not attend AGM's sit back in their armchairs and criticize.Your delegates are there on your behalf ,give them direction or get rid of them.
A few years ago the AGM delegates told the executive that the dates for provincials have to be later because of weather so all tournaments were moved to March.
The AGM told the executive that they must finish by March 31 and to hold multiple tournaments on the same weekend.They added a new person to the executive ,a statistician, to make sure that this could be done and to cut down on the cheating done by dart players.
The AGM agreed with the dates of the tournaments .
The AGM asked for monetary prizes and the executive agreed and instituted a ticket draw to pay for it.The "A" tournament gets twice as much because of the two tier system
Some people have argued about the cost because of jobs etc.If it is that important to your division get them to pay your out of pocket expenses.I attended AGMs the last two years for both the Provincial and National AGMs and lost a days pay each time and the out of pocket expenses I get from the executives do not cover this.
The Eastern part of the island complained because most of the tournaments were being held on the West coast where the majority of the dart players are.A zone system was proposed and now at least one tournament is held every year on the east .
Again at the risk of repeating myself the executive acts on the direction of the delegates at its AGM Each division has the right to send three voting delegates but this very seldom happens. it also seems most of the complaints come from the "A" players who attend National play-offs in Gander. I've attended many AGMs and I see very few National Players,if any, attend.Even when the "A" AGM and tournament was held in Stephenville not that long ago there were no National players that I can remember. If you want change, and this refers to any division, get of your asses and go to the AGM, don't blame it on the executive for your short-comings.remember there are a lot of "A" dart players on the West Coast as well; maybe the Nationals should go out there some time to try and attract more of them.
There are many other positive things that your executive have done that I could mention but I just wanted to show that there are positives as well as negatives.
Morley Greening, a member of executive.
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Post by billstcroix on Oct 21, 2012 9:15:37 GMT -5
First off let me start by saying i dont like or respect personal attacks on anybody either from a player or from the exec members. In my view most of this is a result of frustration.Most dart players and i am not speaking for everyone on the east coast,can handle the the playoffs being in march each year even if it does mean some long drives in poor and dangerous weather conditions..I believe we have accepted that so we are able to keep our seasonal workers involved. However what i see as most of the problem is conflict with what alot of us consider a very important tournament. It does after all give everyone a chance to represent our province at the national level. We have had 2 men win the national title over the last few years..A couple of years ago we had the same situation and when the exec was contacted they found a way to change the dates.It worked out fine since then until the new schedual was released. Lets be realistic a team cannot be expected to leave on a friday morning to go to darts,come home monday and then leave again on wednesday morning to drive across the province...(tuesday morning if they want to attend the agm) This doesn't even take into account the 2 years on the schedule that A is played on gander weekend.
I attended the all nl last year and really enjoyed it. I was looking forward to trying to get there again this year but our whole team also attends gander play downs .So now basically we have to choose one as opposed to being able to attend both of these great dart tournaments.. All we want is a break in between tournaments last year that was a week which was fine..
Now as for the issue of not attending the agm it is pretty simple in my case.. Everyone that knows me knows i would love to be there. That being said the way i was spoken to at the meeting in corner brook makes me wonder why bother..I do however agree that everyone should be there to be heard.. the problem is however is MONEY..it is very expensive to attend. Just as an example for me to attend this year in port aux basques these would be my expenses.. Gas: $400 (i only have a truck) Hotel:$100 2 Days off work $600 meals $80 (2 days on the road) Not to mention 2000 km on my vehicle
Now that minimum $1180 as i would be travelling alone because i cant expect someone else to lose time at work as well.. I JUST CANT DO IT..
Just a question but my 7 year old daughter calls me from her i pod and we talk face to face on screen is there some sort of way we can have the agm via conferece call or video link??
I guess to put this all in perspective at our eastern agm we had 6 teams interested in playing this year and had 4 more talking to me about joining. once news of the dates of the all nl tourneys was realeased i got alot of negative feed back. So much so that our cut off for regristration was yesterday and i extended t until tonight so to give us enough time to have another meeting for our A players to decide our future..I know i can't possibly attend both tourneys. i just hope to have enough players in attendance that can so our division doesnt fold..
In closing i would like to thank the provincial exec for their hard work over the last few years.You have made some good decisions(i.e..2 teams attend provincials) and some bad ones (i.e. schedule).i hope something can be done about the latter.
I would also like to thank MOLSON for sponsoring me, my division, the all nl team darts as well as the national singles. i hope i get to play in as many of the sponsored events as possible.
I am only speaking on behalf of the eastern A division but would like to offer my support to the other divisions b,c,and d as well
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Post by billstcroix on Oct 21, 2012 9:38:21 GMT -5
Oh and one more thing according to the minutes of the A.G.M that i had e-mailed to me from the exec the changes to the schedule in regard to the dates and locations was not made at the agm but rather at a later date the last line in the minutes describe this and i quote "The dates and places of the Provincial Tournaments will be determined when the revised 8 year tournament schedule is adjusted."so attending last year would not have made a difference after all in this matter..
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Post by billstcroix on Oct 21, 2012 10:05:55 GMT -5
Question Morley i was reading your post and you said a few years ago there was an effort to expand a second division east of the overpass. I either never heard of that or my memory could be failing me..lol..Would you mind explaining what was tried and what happened? Just curious on this thats all..thanks
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djq49
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by djq49 on Oct 21, 2012 10:34:29 GMT -5
to mr smith and mr verge.... irritirating what bill st croix quoted from the minutes " 7. A motion was made by Alton Bonnell and seconded by Gary Sheppard that 3 provincial tournaments be played on one weekend and the other tournament along with the AGM be played on another weekend. All tournaments are to played before March 31 and avoid Easter. The 8 year schedule in the Provincial Constitution will be changed accordingly. Motion was carried. " so in fact the dates were set at your july 19 meeting! second to mr verge....as to my question i posed earlier and you agreed to it... how was this accepted with out a motion,seconder, and a vote??
10. " a brief discussion of cut off averages was brought up. No motion was made but it was agreed that your average at the cut-off determines what you play for the next 2 years. You cannot move back after the cut-off in the same or next year except in extraordinary circumstances such as a major health issue."
just an explanation how this was passed please. thks
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Post by toddhiscock1 on Oct 21, 2012 10:56:07 GMT -5
well said Bill..... I also agree the exec have made some great decisons and they also made some bad ones. Mr Verge.....yes the central divison well greatly be affected. there r 2 years where the all NL well be on the same weekend at gander.....and from what i have seen represented from the central area a good majority of them attend gander and have also represented NL at the national level. I also know that you guys are trying to do your best and are trying to help out grow the league....like Bill said sending 2 teams from each region...which i believe was a genious decison....BUT scheduling them so close and on the same weekend at Gander is very bad and is hurting the represtation and the level of competiton attendinf both events. If you want it all done by march....good enough...have it end of february or whatever. Morley i would love to attend a AGM to see what it is all about and to be able to give some input and advice....but like bill said..its very costly to drive across the island...for ex...if i go to gander and plan on going to the All NL...i would leave St. Johns friday to go to gander....then leave Gander monday to drive to St. JOhns..then 2 days later leave St Johns and drive to Port Aux Basques...and if i wanted to attend the agm i would have to leave a day earlier....this just makes any sense on so many levels....As Bill suggested why cant there be a Video conference....set a date...then every region have a time and place where all the players can gather and listen and have their say. Im sure our major sponsor Molson is not going to be to happy that these 2 events are scheduled on the same weekend...making players decide which event they will attend which will lower attendance at both events and in return....lower the sales of Molson.....and that will be very bad. Anyways...I know you prob dont care...But Eastern A is having another meeting tonight to decide if any teams will participate or fold the league...and from what im hearing its not going to be good.....guess that will make some people happy. Personally i cannot see me being able to attend both events being so close together....it makes me sad and frustrated at the sametime.
Todd Hiscock
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Post by Jason Verge on Oct 21, 2012 18:51:07 GMT -5
Hello D J Not sure what your refering to that was passed without a motion, seconder or a vote, but going by your last post i will address the two items you have listed. If your refering to the schedule changes then as you stated a motion was made by Alton Bonnell and seconded by Gary Sheppard, was voted on and passed. That motion also gave the executive the right to set the dates for the rest of the eight year schedule with two conditions, the tournaments all had to be finished by March 31st and we were to avoid Easter. Wither they were voted on or not, the dates for 2013 tournaments were set at the AGM. The rest of the dates were set at a later date. If your refering to the Cut-Off date, we didn't need a motion, nothing got changed, the rule for cut-off, and any other recorded average is simply you cannot drop back to a lower division until you have recored a lower division average for two years in a row after you have advanced to a higher division. That rule has been part of the by-laws as long as i can remember long before this executive was voted in. You only need a motion, a seconder and a vote if you are changing a by-law or making a new one. We discuss many items at our AGM's but a lot are just discussed, it's only when changes are made we have to have a motion,seconder and a vote. Once again nothing was changed regarding cut-off, it's always been that way. For Bill St Croix, Morley was refering to the mandate that was given to the Executive at the AGM 3 year ago i think not 2. We were asked to rewrite the Constitution and By-Laws and to define the boundries of each division and create two new divisions and return it all to the next AGM to be voted on and passed or rejected. We did as was asked and created two new divisions, i'm not right sure of the names put on those divisions but i think it was Avalon East and Northeastern, i have the maps back home that was made and sent to each regional executive at the time. We consulted with Molson and they agreed to make up a poster that could be distributed by their reps to all clubs within each of the new regions, this was done but we never received any response from anyone in either of the two regions. This year we once again tried to get one of those regions involved by sending a executive member to the region in the hope of getting the region up and running but they doesn't want anything to do with Provincial Darts. I will be back on the Island on Oct 29th so if anyone want a copy of the maps defining the Region Boundries i will be glad to get them to you. Just for the information of anyone concerned, as i said i will be home (yes i still live in Newfie not in Ontario as some think) on Oct 29th, shortly after i will be meeting with the Executive Members and we will be contacting all Regional Executives to get their players response as to wither the dates for the tournaments (i say tournaments because if we change A which this year is the last tournament so we can get A players at our AGM then we also have to keep the B,C,D tournaments first) will get changed. The Regional Executives will be given time to consult with their players and the answers received from the Regions will decide if the Schedule get changed, as with any decision made regarding provincial darts, the majority rules and the decision of the Regions will be final. I will be contacting Rod our Sec/Treasure in an e-mail tonight asking him to inform all regional executives to pool their players and have their answers ready when we contact them.
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Post by billstcroix on Oct 21, 2012 21:14:50 GMT -5
thanks jason morley already e-mailed me and filled me in on the divisions i just didnt't think they were in the st.john's area.. As for the tournament dates we had another meeting tonight to discuss that with all our players. there was alot of conversation about it and i will send you an e-mail for you to review as this as you stated is not the place for official business..that being said this is a great place to get things started and i would thank Chris Lee for continuing to provide this site for us all.
cheers hope it works out for everyone..
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Post by piker650 on Oct 21, 2012 23:58:00 GMT -5
Here we go again.
Scheduling tournaments has been an issue dating back at least 20 years when most tournaments were held the latter part of April. [In my opinion, a much better scenario than what we have now]. Problems then always surrounded the start of fishing season, seasonal employment as well.
Over that period, however, we have never intentionally scheduled tournaments whereby it would hurt the attendance at Nation singles qualifiers or our own provincial tourmanents. This decision does that.
The Singles in Gander has been held on St Paddy's day weekend for as long as I can remember or at least as long as I have attended. This is why that weekend should not even come into play when deciding 5-man team tournament dates. So I wouldn't expect Nationals executive to change Singles to another weekend. I do believe this past practice gives singles the right not to have to change dates.
Too expect players that want to attend both, to be able to do so, when scheduled so close together is absurd as well. For example, my work schedule this year allows me to attend Gander but to attend "A" playdowns I will have to take a weeks leave; that is if there is someone available to replace me to have such leave approved.
I do not expect the All-NL executive to base the scheduling to suit my work schedule so maybe no one else should either. If we take that out of the equation then the only thing we would have to look at is safety and it is safer to travel in this province in April than March [Or at least the majority of the time].
There is another tournament that takes place in March as well that has representation by players that go to Gander and Provincials. The Legion provincials the last few years have been the first or second weekend of March. Last year it was the weekend before Gander. If the same happens again this year some players are looking at trying to fit three weekends of travel back to back to back.
Jason, before you go on about our lack of attendance at the AGM to discuss and put ideas forward. I would love to attend the AGM but as explained to you in Corner Brook; Central division cannot afford to send anyone. All the money we take in goes back to the teams that represent. Even with it at the A there is no guarantee that we will be there. The core of the teams that play in our area also attend the Singles in Gander each year.
The benefits of being there to voice an opinion or to explain a concept such as the two-tiered playoff for A division is great as the end result does not always get delivered exactly as it was proposed.
Heres hoping that the schedule will receive a second look and everyone can make it to the AGM and all divisions are represented in all sections.
Speaking of Sections it may be time to look at sections at our provincials to avoid a marathon like last year. We began play at 1030am and finished at 1130 pm without a break. Being shorthanded due to a last minute drop out and another players wife dying we could not even sit out to get a meal.
16 teams are great but 2 sections with top 4 crossover would allow for some social time to actually meet the other players over a cold one or two.
Hoping to see everyone in Gander and Port aux Basque, Wayne Pike
PS Thank-you Chris Lee for providing this site to have these debates I will agree with Jason, without the name calling, that everyone should attach their name to their post.
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Post by sheppard on Nov 20, 2012 14:10:17 GMT -5
A COPY from another post in another section on here: the "B" "C" & "D" Provincials are all on the Same weekend as the Gander, and the "A" is the following weekend. I am not on the Provincial Exec, but involved this year onthe Western Exec. The same thing happens year after year, there are only a certain # of players that are going to make Team NL, and you can bet dollars to donuts, that those players are not a B, C or D average player, so in all honesty these players are going out for a trip, some expericance, a good drunk and a "good time" if you know what I mean (same weekend as the Ladies Volley fest). I've wanted to go many times, just for a bit more dart playing experiance to play singles, but couldn't get out. I was all geared up last year looking forward to go, however, my team won the Regional "B" division here in Western, and I chose team darts over singels. The singles in Gander and Prov. "B" were 2 weeks apart, but I couldn't afford to go to both. Who knows, maybe one of these years I'll get out. The provincial exec has been bombarbed in the past that certain divisions couldn't send players certain times of the year (due to work - fishermen for example), so it was decided that all tournaments be over by the end of March. These topics are discussed and and voted on at the AGM meetings held every year. I've read on here time and time that if "A" players want to voice concerns, they should go to the AGM meetings with their Regional Exec. members. This year is a good time for that to happen as the AGM is being held the same time as the Prov. "A" Tourny on P.A.B. There are far more players (over 1750 registered last year) that go to the Provincial tournaments than those that go to the Gander Qualifiers, why not have the Gander Qualifier pushed ahead and played in April? ? Ask the Gander Qualifier people to change their dates and see what kind of response that gets. If i'm wrong on any points listed above, I apologize. Please correct me if you see fit, and this in my 2 cents only. Cory Sheppard Western Exec.
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Post by sheppard on Nov 20, 2012 14:14:00 GMT -5
just to clarify, i'n not referring that all 1750 + player travel to Provinicial. But I'd say just the "A" Tournament alone in Corner Brook (16 teams of at least 6 on a team) had just as many players as Gander Qualifiers.
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Post by jnharding on Nov 23, 2012 0:31:25 GMT -5
Personally if you want to grow the sport then we need more ranked tornaments in this province. I agree with the majority of the people on this site that as thr president that you need to carry yourself a lot more professionally. If you don't live in St. John's then you are left in the dark when it come to everything darts.
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